History: Fiction or Science? (Chronology, No. 1)

Book Description

Recorded history is a finely-woven magic fabric of intricate lies about events predating the sixteenth century. There is not a single piece of evidence that can be reliably and independently traced back earlier than the eleventh century. This book details events that are substantiated by hard facts and logic, and validated by new astronomical research and statistical analysis of ancient sources.

Customer Reviews:

Calculations are only as good as your numbers.......2007-08-03

Yes, we can all agree that mainstream history is nearly 100% BS due to politics, economics, ego, problems with dating techniques, and various conspiracies. Agreed. But, I've been researching the distinct possibility that human history (in terms of civilizations) are much more ancient than we've been told, so coming across this book was very interesting to me. I wondered how Fomenko could be wrong (if at all) because he is very persuasive in his presentations. Then it dawned on me. If at previous times in prehistory, due to the various catastrophies that are well documented (comets, asteroids, planetary disruptions, plasma discharge, pole reversals, etc) the Earth was in a different position in relation to the sun, different tilt on its axis, different orbit, different rotation (in terms of velocity and DIRECTION), and the continents were in different positions, then would this not cause the ancients to see the sky (constellations) differently? In other words, is Fomenko making erronious assumptions about the physics of the Earth in pre-history, which then corrupt his data with regards to dating the relevant astrology? The last event to seriously disrupt our planet occured roughly 3500 years ago, according to other good researchers, so is it possible Fomenko has been confused by this? The vastly different physics of our planet in the not so distant past may explain this confusion, which is not to say the "mainstream" version of history is correct; on the contrary. I am not an expert in these fields, but wanted to see if this idea could spark discussion.

Pants on fire?.......2007-07-19

Will people ever read before spamming? Yes, Jesuits could not rewrite world history alone, they had help. Anyway, Dr Prof Acad A.Fomenko does not point to jesuits as the driving force of world wide history manipulation in published volumes 1,2,3;, actually he barely mentions the poor devils. Check it with 'Search inside' feature, please. China is rarely mentioned either, in fact, Dr Fomenko is completely eurocentric. Right, his theory contradicts all mainstream schools of history, because in their actual state they are all built on blatantly erroneus chronology. You don't need a mysterious cabal (conspiracy) to falsify history, the falsification is its modus operandi. It is inherent to history(ians) to falsify (distort) events, as it is inherent to humans to boast as it is inherent to power (authority) to legimize itself by referrring to glorious past made to its own order. Dr Prof Fomenko and team have identified scores of instances of such manipulation in Russian, European, etc.. history, and delivered valid statistical proof thereof. His own 'reconstruction' is completely another story. Forget c14 as a valid method of dating. W.Libby has initially discovered a brilliant method of INDEPENDENT dating. Too bad, c14 method has become a joke after a forced marrige with dendrochronology with consensual chronological scale inbuilt. Radiocarbon method can't stand blind tests, but is so very productive as a rubberstamp.

Accepted History & Chronology Must Be Changed. .......2007-04-09

There is no doubt that history as most know it is a sham, & institution's version of History both University & Church is fradulent & inaccurate. Everything was established with an agenda, The real "Dark Ages" are now when we have access to incredible amounts of information past authorities & more important 'common folk' didn't have but our institutions & educators are slow to evolve because of what has ignorantly & arrogantly been taught for too long. This is on many subjects not just Chronology.

For anyone to question "Why would a Mathematician have anything credible to say of History?" The answer is from Dr. Fomenko's preface in the book: "It would be worthwhile to remind the reader that in the XVI-XVII century Chronology was considered to be a subdivision of Mathematics." These volumes could possibly be some of the most important works to date & should be read by everyone with an interest in History, especially professors & educators who have a duty to the public. I have read both books & must say that 'Chronology 1' has some very eye opening & revolutionary information. Even if these volumes are part true the implications are profound & opens the doors to further investigations & questions which must be done. I speak several different lanquages & must say the logic Dr. Fomenko uses with "inflection" of words & words being read from left to right in one region & right to left in another then written backwards, the removal of vowels & get down to basics of words, or different cities & locations having the same name etc. is correct. Vowel usage has always been optional & varied, actually complicating linquistics & study. The first thing one has to understand is that words never had a fixed spelling in history like we do now, the spelling of words was mutable & regional, as well as names & titles of people were vast, varied & changed, NOTHING WAS FIXED or understood linear. Matters of Life & Death as well as financial profiteering yesterday & today were & are made with ignorant, illogical & conspiratorial views of history & reality, it's time people get closer to the Truth & society collectively grow up.

Very Interesting.......2007-03-07

It is a good proposal and I believe it will mature into something even better in the future. I think it deserves to be read.

History as Science Fiction.......2007-01-10

Anatoly Fomenko has written a very intriguing book, full of pictures, charts, and computer 'proof' of his thesis: backwards of AD900 we don't really know what happened or when. Between AD900 and AD1600 there is more certainty, but there is still a lot of fuzzy ground, and things don't get reliable until we get past the 1600's where the printing press made it very difficult for the perpetrators of this timeline manipulation to change anything that had been committed to print. The Dark Ages did not happen. Books were burned for a reason. One organization has doubled the actual length of its existence by expanding the real chronology. Read why.

I had always wondered why Christ died about AD33 and yet men waited until the 11th century to form the Knights Templar, the Cathars, etc and go after the Holy Land by force. Why the 1000 year gap? Turns out there wasn't more than a 10-12 year gap and he proves it using astronomy. This also implies that the planet is not as old as we have been told, and current Christian and other creationist scientists are already championing that idea without being aware of Fomenko's book. The two groups, creationist scientists and the Russian mathematical analysts corroborate each other. Fascinating.

Of course, all this flies in the face of what we have been told traditionally is the 'proper' chronology of western civilization, and most readers will experience 'cognitive dissonance' in reading this book. It means that our history going backwards from AD1600 becomes progressively more incorrect and unreliable until it cannot be trusted at all... in the space of 700-800 years.

Naturally, the curious, open-minded reader will want to know WHO did this, WHY, and did any of the events we think of as really ancient ever happen?
Dr. Fomenko is a respected scientist/mathematician at Moscow State University who has already answered these questions to the satisfaction of his initially skeptical colleagues. Most of them are now believers, a few still refuse to believe (the usual diehards), and of course the western press has ignored Fomenko's work -- for obvious reasons when you read the book. The ones who perpetrated this chronology ruse have a lot to answer for. They are still with us. That's why this book is a well-kept secret.

I gave the book a 4-star rating because I was unable to check out some of his claims; those I checked were as he said. But if even 1/3 of his claims are true, this punches a big hole in what we think is our history, the meaning of western civilization, our educational process (for repeating the ruse as gospel), and the trustworthiness of the organization that perpetrated this ruse, well-intentioned or not.

This book relates to current research into a Young Earth paradigm, to John Keel's discoveries about our planet, and Fr Malachi Martin's insights (in his now out-of-print books). We are indeed sheep who are manipulated and kept ignorant -- for a reason. While knowing what these men have to say may be the "booby prize" (as in: 'what can you do with this knowledge?'), it will provide interesting reading. Didn't someone say: "...and the Truth will set you free."?? For you to judge if this book contains the truth.

Mark Antony's Heroes: How the Third Gallica Legion Saved an Apostle and Created an Emperor

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Living History
Good, but Dando-Collins has written better

Mark Antony's Heroes: How the Third Gallica Legion Saved an Apostle and Created an Emperor
Stephen Dando-Collins
Manufacturer: Wiley
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

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ASIN: 0471788996

Book Description

This fourth book in Dando-Collins’s definitive history of Rome’s legions tells the story of Rome’s 3rd Gallica Legion, which put Vespasian on the throne and saved the life of the Christian apostle Paul. Named for their leader, Mark Antony, these common Roman soldiers, through their gallantry on the battlefield, reshaped the Roman Empire and aided the spread of Christianity throughout Europe.

Customer Reviews:

Living History.......2007-03-16

Stephen Dando-Collins writes very well, you get the history, facts I hadn't read before and real research without a million footnotes to distract from the tale. I have read his whole series on the legions. Excellent

Good, but Dando-Collins has written better.......2007-01-31

I realize that Dando-Collins is writing his series for the non-specialist, but his use of modern place names and modern equivalencies for Roman army terms is condescending and off-putting. If a non-specialist cares enough to read the work, he won't be stymied by Roman terms and specialists, though I speak only for myself, find the equivalencies annoying at best and misleading at worst. Tribune, legate, cohort, vexillation, et al. are tems that can certainly be learned by anyone, especially if a glossary is provided. Otherwise, Dando-Collins is a good storyteller and I thoroughly enjoy his chronological histories of the legions, told one legion at a time.

History: Fiction or Science? Chronology 2 (Chronology)

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Check and see
Suprise! Suprise!
Prescient St Augustine?
Something of a disappointment
Romulus courts Helen, Paris founds Rome, Moses goes to Troy..

History: Fiction or Science? Chronology 2 (Chronology)
Anatoly T Fomenko
Manufacturer: Delamere Resources LLC
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Paperback

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ASIN: 2913621066

Product Description

`History: Fiction or Science? Chronology 2` is the second volume of the most explosive and astounding tractate on history ever written - however, every theory it contains, no matter how unorthodox, is backed by rock solid scientific data. The book is easy and pleasant to read; it is well-illustrated, contains hundreds of charts, graphs and illustrations, copies of ancient manuscripts, and countless facts attesting to the falsity of the chronology used nowadays. You will be amazed to discover: - That the chronology universally accepted today and taken for granted is simply wrong; - That ALL methods of dating of ancient sources and artefacts known today are erroneous or non-exact; - That there is not a single document that could be reliably dated earlier than the XIth century; The Author refers to the Middle Ages as the Antiquity and proves mutual superimposition of the Second and the Third Roman Empire, both of which become identified as the respective kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Furthermore, he asserts that the famous reform of the Occidental Church in the XI century by Pope Gregory Hildebrand was the reflection of the XII century reforms of Byzantine emperor Andronicus who in his turn identifies with Jesus Christ. The Trojan war counted by Homer happened only as late as of the XIII century A.D. and the great poet actually lived in XIV century A.D. No stone in history of Antiquity is left unturned. Literally. This book is the beginning of a major correction to the chronology we live with.

Customer Reviews:

Check and see.......2007-06-21

I don't care what other people say of this book. Those affirmig it's fake, they hadn't ever read it. Or have some special reasons to do so. "Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see..." This book won't make you feel comfortable. It'll make you feel free. It'll make you feel you're "not the only one" to feel you'd been lied to for centuries.

Suprise! Suprise!.......2007-03-22

Here is a serie of books which turns "the whole world" upside down. I learned a lot of it and I hope that a new book from A.T. Fomenko will follow very quick. A absolute must for everybody who is interested in history or even a little bit from it.

Prescient St Augustine?.......2006-02-05

We can so far divide the New Chronology into the following three parts:

a) The verifiable theory that proves consensual chronology wrong with the aid of astronomy, statistics and mathematics;

b) The new chronology hypothesis based on a new understanding of known historical facts and the most likely logical explanation of the most obvious inconsistencies inherent in the official version of history;

c) The history conjectures, that is experimental historical reconstructions based on assumptions that the authors believe to make sense in the light of their research and linguistic parallels - void of ironclad factual support to date.

Fomenko's theory complies with the most rigid scientific standards as a whole:

It gives a coherent explanation of what we already know.

- It is consistent: independent lines of inquiry all lead to the same conclusion.

- The predictions it makes are confirmed empirically.

Fomenko goes by the following axioms:

- Chronology is the basis of history;

- Human evolution has always been linear, gradual and irreversible;

- The "cyclic" nature of human civilization is a myth, likewise all the gaps, duplicates, "dark ages" and "renaissances" that we know from consensual history;

- The accumulation of geographical knowledge as reflected in cartography is a gradual and irreversible process;

- The chronological distance between a given manuscript and the events described therein is proportional to the amount of distortions it contains;

- There is no "useless" information in authentic ancient sources.

Why the mainstream historians do not shower mathematician Academician Dr.Prof Fomenko with thanks and laurels?

The Russians:

Because Fomenko asserts that there was no such thing as the Tartar and Mongol invasion followed by three centuries of slavery, providing a formidable body of documental evidence to prove his assertion. The so-called "Tartars and Mongols" were the actual ancestors of the modern Russians, living in a bilingual state with Arabic spoken as freely as Russian. The ancient Russian state was governed by a double structure of civil and military authorities. The hordes were actually professional armies with a tradition of lifelong conscription (the recruitment being the so-called "blood tax"). Their "invasions" were punitive operations against the regions that attempted tax evasion. Fomenko proves that Russian history as we know it today is a blatant forgery concocted by a host of German scientists brought to Russia by the usurper dynasty of the Romanovs, whose ascension to the throne was the result of coup d'état, charged with the mission of making their reign look legitimate. Fomenko proves Ivan the Terrible to be a collation of four rulers, no less. They represented the two rival dynasties - the legitimate rulers and the ambitious upstarts. The winner took it all! Over some 30 years of controversy, Russian historians have made a most remarkable transition - they were initially accusing the young mathematician Fomenko of anticommunist dissident activity and attempts to deface the historical legacy of Soviet Russia; nowadays the middle-aged mathematician is accused of adhering to "pro-communist Russian nationalism" and defacing the proud historical legacy of Great Russia.

The Westerners:

Because Fomenko blows consensual Russian history to smithereens, successfully removing a crucial cornerstone from underneath the otherwise impeccable edifice of World History. Fomenko adds insult to injury, wiping out one by one the Ancient Rome (the foundation of Rome in Italy is dated to the XIV century A. D.), the Ancient Greece and its numerous poleis, which he identifies as the mediaeval crusader settlements on the territory of Greece, and the Ancient Egypt (the pyramids of Giza become dated to the XI-XV century A. D. and identified as the royal cemetery of the Global "Mongolian" Empire, no less). The civilization of the Ancient Egypt is irrefutably dated to the XII-XV century A. D. with the aid of the ancient Egyptian horoscopes cut in stone. He was the first one to decipher and date all such horoscopes, coming up with mediaeval dates in every case. English historians rage at the suggestion that the history of Ancient England was de facto a Byzantine import transplanted to the English soil by the fugitive Byzantine nobility. To reward the English historians who consider themselves the true scribes of World History, the cover of the present book portrays Tintoretto's Jesus Christ crucified on the Big Ben.

The Chinese:

Because Fomenko wipes out the Ancient History of China outright. No such thing. Full point. The compilation of the so-called Ancient Chinese History is reliably datable to the XVII-XVIII century only. It is perfectly recognizable as the Ancient European history, reworked and transcribed in hieroglyphs as yet another historical transplantation, this time performed on the Chinese soil by the loving Jesuit hands. The Chinese are the next in line to go berserk. Chinese history is inevitably bound to get both more ancient and more eventful, proportionally to the growing involvement of China in the world affairs. Chinese historians will keep on finding valid proof of prehistoric Chinese spaceflights until the Politburo orders them to shut up.

The Arabs:

Too bad. Islam with all its key figures is datable to XV-XVI century A. D. Arabic historians may find consolation in the crucial historical role of the Ottoman Empire in the XVI-XVII century. The trouble is that this empire was initially a Christian state, with Hagia Sophia identifiable as Temple of Solomon, according to Fomenko! We can only guess if the acquisition of Alexander the Great (a Macedonian and a Christian) as the founder of the Muslim World Empire will make Fomenko's theories more acceptable to the Arabic mainstream. He certainly does not spare any holy cows at all, claiming The Stone of Qa'Aba in Mecca to contain the lost Arch of the Covenant.

The Divinity:

Despite of reiterated statement that his theory is all about chronology and not Religion, Fomenko stirs up a whole condominium of wasp nests. His collection of anathemas, fatwa, and other condemnations from all parties concerned is already considerable. Little wonder, considering that the history of religions à la Fomenko looks as follows: the pre-Christian period (before the XI century and JC), Bacchic Christianity (XI-XII century, before and after JC), JC Christianity (XII-XVI century) and its subsequent mutations into Orthodox Christianity, the Catholicism, Islam, Buddhism, and so on.

According to Fomenko we know strictly NOTHING about the events that predate the X century A. D.

St Augustin was prescient when he spoke unto us: "be wary of mathematicians, particularly when they speak the truth."

Something of a disappointment.......2005-09-09

After having read the first volume of this expected series of 7 volumes I was triggered by the thesis of these authors that ancient Greek and Roman history did in fact take place in the Middle Ages. So I started studying medieval history of the Middle East - also known as Islamic history - to find out if the opponents of the ancient Greeks and Romans - the Acheamenid Persians, Sassanids, Scythians, Egyptians, etc. - also have their duplicates in medieval history. My search was disappointing: none of the many medieval Islamic dynasties seemed to correspond to the ancient middle eastern rulers.

However, I did find a close correspondence between Herodotus' Persian kings and medieval events:

- the defeat and capture of an Anatolian king - the Lydian Croesus - by the Persian conqueror Cyrus is identical to the defeat and capture of another Anatolian king - sultan Bayezid - by the Asian/Mongol conqueror Tamerlane;
- the Persian conquest of Egypt by the cruel tyrant Cambyses reds almost exactly as the Ottoman conquest of Egypt by Selim the Grim (note the nickname!);
- Darius the Lawgiver of the Persian Empire looks very much alike to Sulayman the Magnificent, the Lawgiver in Islamic history;
- Xerxes, whose main claim to fame is to be defeated by the Greeks at the naval battle of Salamis, looks like Selim II (the Sot) whose main claim to fame is to be defeated by a Spanish-Italian alliance at the naval battle of Lepanto.

I should have expected Fomenko et al. to arrive at similar conclusions, however, they claim that the Persian kings are the alter egos of the Angevin kings of Sicily whose biographies do not contain the exploits of the Persian kings.

The similiarities I indicate lead to the conclusion that Herodotus must have written his Histories at the close of the 16th century. But this is extremely late, given that Herodotus is "the Father of History", so therefore all other "ancient" histories must have been fabricated even later. Yet, the founders of modern chronology - Scaliger and Petavius - laid their foundations also at the close of the 16th century and had the full corpus of ancient histories already at their disposal.

It seems to me that Fomenko has to address these inconsistencies, maybe in the forthcoming 5 volumes?

Another critique of their book is that the correspondencies between different rulers are often based on a superficial comparison of the biographies; upon a more thorough comparison many details appear that do not correspond at all.

Finally, the authors rely heavily on the works of Gregorovius (1821-1891!!) - his medieval histories of Rome and Athens - as the source of medieval history; these works are - at least in the West - hoplessly outdated and have been superceded by more up-to-date works (for instance, Julius Norwich's trilogy on Byzantine history is not even cited).

Romulus courts Helen, Paris founds Rome, Moses goes to Troy.........2005-07-30

If you agree with Fomenko that Roman chronology is basically the foundation of the entire edifice of global chronology; you would also certainly agree that despite its numerous gaps and inconsistencies, Roman history is the best-documented field of ancient history, and thus a reference scale. But how well is the actual date of the Eternal City's foundation known?

Firstly, Rome is supposed to have been founded by the Trojans who had to flee after the fall of Troy. Some claim Rome to have been founded by Aeneas and Ulysses shortly after Troy had fallen; others are of the opinion that there was an entire dynasty that ruled for 500 years between the fall of Troy and the foundation of Rome.

Well, that's just an innocent 500 years long misunderstanding compared with what heretic Fomenko says, asserts, proves in his second volume: Second Roman Empire, Third Roman Empire, Biblical Kingdom of Israel, Biblical Kingdom of Judah, Holy Roman Empire are stories about basically same events, written from different points of view at different times. The underlying events have actually taken place during xii-xv cy. These histories have been written and perfected by multitude of highly talented humanist and clerical writers of xiii-xvi cy disguised as "ancients" with glorious names like Homer, Pluto, Thucydides etc..Chronology 2.0 beta..

Historians are kindly invited to report the bugs.

Gods and Legions: A Novel of the Roman Empire

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Worm's eye view
Book Review
OK... I think I've got it....
WELL WRITTEN
Why Put Forth the Effort?

Gods and Legions: A Novel of the Roman Empire
Michael Curtis Ford
Manufacturer: St. Martin's Paperbacks
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Mass Market Paperback

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ASIN: 0312989407

Book Description

In the year, 354 A.D., Julian, a sheltered scholar and pacifist lives in peace-until a summons from Emperor Constantine the Great changes the young man's life forever. Dispatched to Gaul to help reclaim a beaten Roman territory from German barbarians, Julian displays a surprising and brutal genius for survival against impossible odds. Emerging as an unlikely hero and adored by a legion of zealots, his untapped ambition is ignited-to reign as the new emperor. It's a position of power that'll test the loyalty of his friends, stir the ire of enemies, and cast an ominous shadow over his mad, and most magnificently impossible conquest of all...From the author of the acclaimed The Ten Thousand comes a breathtaking recreation of the historic rise to power of a ruthless yet unlikely leader plunged into the chaos of war-and his shocking fall that would become one of the most fascinating mysteries of the ages. A novel of courage and conviction, of loyalty and betrayal, of personal victory and dark ambition, Gods and Legions is epic storytelling at its most riveting.

Customer Reviews:

Worm's eye view.......2007-05-13

The key to GODS AND LEGIONS is its narrator. Caesarion, physician to two emperors, begins as a bright scientist who likes to push the boundaries of reseach. Contradictorily, he is also a 4th century Christian, and in Caesarion Christianity is gradually winning. As a Christian's twisted view of Emperor Julian, GODS AND LEGIONS is a cultural study of the Roman Empire.

Caesarion begins as a friend of young student Julian, the only surviving male cousin of Emperor Constantius. Julian survives because his love of books seems to make him harmlessly unambitious. But Constantius needs a figurehead to represent Roman power in the West. Placed in Gaul, Julian flowers into a brilliant general and administrator. His sense of justice and his sympathy for Rome's subjects make him immensely popular. As so often happened in the Roman Empire, Julian is acclaimed Emperor by his people.

While Julian comes into his own, Caesarion's disenchantment grows. For most of the book there is a strict correlation between their attitudes: Julian's headed up, Caesarion's headed down. Like all good Christians of the time, to Caesarion religious tolerance would be a sin, and Caesarion will eventually be declared a saint. Trapped by his sense of duty in a grossly uncongenial position, he becomes grim and disapproving. From the moment Julian declares that he follows the Hellenistic gods, Caesarion believes him mad; it is very clear in the text that all of Caesarion's later accounts of Julian are colored by the Christian view of Julian as the Antichrist.

Was Julian murdered in Persia by someone among his own troops? We have no evidence of that, and Julian was stabbed in battle. He didn't stand behind with his generals, observing; he fought. Ford says that either army might have been using the type of spear that killed him. Julian did the same thing as Napoleon did -- led his troops beyond their supply lines. Napoleon's troops didn't kill him. Maybe the murder theory is just another case of the victors rewriting history.

Gore Vidal's JULIAN has a delicious, satirical approach that hurts the powerfully dramatic GODS AND LEGIONS by comparison, but agrees with Ford that the murder theory makes a better story. I'm going to have to track down the writings of Julian and Ammianus Marcellinus, and see for myself if I agree with either novel.

Book Review.......2007-05-13

I enjoyed the book overall, but got "bogged down" in some of the battle descriptions. Otherwise, it was an enjoyable read.

OK... I think I've got it...........2007-02-15

This book helped me understand what I am looking for in an historical fiction. (deep breath) Steven Saylor (Mysteries of Ancient Rome series) does not hold my interest.... Simon Scarrow (Under the Eagle) is modern writing writ small for the epic that is Rome. But Michael Curtis Ford... ahhh ... If you understand the humor in this line, you will love him. Ready ? Here goes... " I believe he was a Spartan" muttered Julian laconically'. Was that funny to you? If so, Michael Curtis Ford is your cup of tea. Writing circles within circles as the ancient narrarator struggles with his own style. The history is tight as the soon-to-be mad emperor Julian undoes, unstrings, and unravels what Constantine the Great sought to do. Julian reverts to paganism and heads, where else, for Persia and his own Waterloo.(sorry for my own very mixed metaphor) This after reluctantly becoming a Roman warrior, succeeding his uncle, (the Roman emperor), overthrowing the Gauls, and in general, having an adventure that makes the AD 300's come to life. I went in ignorant of this particular time period. I came out smarter and better for the experience. This is a meaty novel, not pure history, but not the pap Saylor and Scarrow churn out, either. This is on par with Colleen McCollough and the Grass Crown / Caesars Women series. Call me middle brow, but I'm havin' some fun here !!

WELL WRITTEN.......2006-10-30

A take on Emperor Julian, the last Roman emperor, who tried to eradicate Christianity as the main religion of the Roman Empire (then situated mostly in Constantinople, now Istanbul).

A lot of it seems to be Historically accurate though there are some areas that are considered to be questionable and the author does take liberties in certain areas where we really do not know, for sure, what happened.

Great battles and ideas, especially in the beginning against the Persian elephants and the Germanic tribes fooling the Romans along the river.

The take on Julian's reasons for having problems with Christianty were done well enough, but, for such a hot topic, they could have spent more time detailing it as we are mostly a Christian country and a superb reason is needed for people to understand why one might want to not make it the main religion.

Why Put Forth the Effort?.......2006-07-24

Gore Vidal's "Julian" is one of my favorite all-time books, so I thought I might enjoy another on the subject. All-in-all I was disappointed and only managed to make it about 3/4 of the way through with much effort. Though the author's writing style is quite readable, writing a story from the viewpoint of someone who diliked Julian and is supposed to be his friend just didn't cut it with me. The self-righteous Christian got old real fast. And the secondary characters like Oribasius and Maximus were so vividly done by Vidal as to make them a jarring, discordant note in this work. The only way it was in any way better than Vidal's work is the battle descriptions, which are well done.
To me it was like someone trying to re-write Gone With the Wind, To Kill a Mockingbird or A Confederacy of Dunces. It can't be improved upon, so why put forth the effort?

The Battle That Stopped Rome: Emperor Augustus, Arminius, and the Slaughter of the Legions in the Teutoburg Forest

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A Rare But Costly Roman Debacle
Too much fluff......
Interesting but not too enlightening
I received great service!
Not Good at All

The Battle That Stopped Rome: Emperor Augustus, Arminius, and the Slaughter of the Legions in the Teutoburg Forest
Peter S. Wells
Manufacturer: W. W. Norton & Company
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Rome's Greatest Defeat: Massacre in the Teutoburg Forest
Nero's Killing Machine: The True Story of Rome's Remarkable 14th Legion
Caesar's Legion: The Epic Saga of Julius Caesar's Elite Tenth Legion and the Armies of Rome
The Complete Roman Army

ASIN: 0393326438

Book Description

The previously untold story of the watershed battle that changed the course of Western history.

In AD 9, a Roman traitor led an army of barbarians who trapped and then slaughtered three entire Roman legions: 20,000 men, half the Roman army in Europe. If not for this battle, the Roman Empire would surely have expanded to the Elbe River, and probably eastward into present-day Russia. But after this defeat, the shocked Romans ended all efforts to expand beyond the Rhine, which became the fixed border between Rome and Germania for the next 400 years, and which remains the cultural border between Latin western Europe and Germanic central and eastern Europe today.

This fascinating narrative introduces us to the key protagonists: the emperor Augustus, the most powerful of the Caesars; his general Varus, who was the wrong man in the wrong place; and the barbarian leader Arminius, later celebrated as the first German hero. In graphic detail, based on recent archaeological finds, the author leads the reader through the mud, blood, and decimation that was the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. 16 pages of illustrations.

Customer Reviews:

A Rare But Costly Roman Debacle.......2007-04-02

The number of significant Roman military defeats was so low that one can draw the inescapable conclusion that Rome lost so rarely because Rome made sure that defeat simply could not happen with any regularity. The annihilation of Rome's legions at Cannae comes to mind as an exception. And now in THE BATTLE THAT STOPPED ROME. Peter S. Wells details what is perhaps Rome's second most notorious debacle. The details of the destruction of three of Emperor Augustus' legions have been well documented in other texts, but what makes Wells' version worthwhile is the sense that the reader feels that he is right there in the Teutoburg Forest in Germany in 9 AD. The first half of his book details the preliminaries: the background of the geography, the competing rulers, the structure of both armies, and the villain of this piece--the German Arminius, who had once served in Rome's legions and used that knowledge of tactics against them. Wells now adds that there is a new villain--the Roman general Varus, whom Wells describes as "the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Before the battle, Rome seemed destined to expand its hegemony throughout Germany. Augustus tapped Varus as the commander who could deliver Germany as a docile vassal of Rome. The German hordes could be many things but docile was not one of them. Arminius induced Rome's three legions to traverse a narrow pathway in the Teutoburg Forest, where the disciplined battle order of the legions could not be used. What Wells adds to other and earlier accounts is a "you are there" scenario. Much of what one reads he claims is based on the latest archeological finds, but the depth of detail suggests a fertile imagination that fills out the meat from the bare skeleton of these finds. Several reviewers have suggested that they found it difficult to believe that twenty thousand legionnaires could have been slaughtered in under one hour. But a careful consideration of the geography adds credence to the speed with which the Germans could have wreaked incalculable damage with spears tossed directly into the midst of bunched up Romans, all of whom were sitting or rather standing ducks. Indeed, one can visualize the majority being impaled within just the first few minutes. Wells clearly labels this less a battle than a massacre, the result of which was to fix forever the easternmost edge of the Roman empire. For modern students of Roman history who wish to recreate in a few dozen pages how a mighty fighting force could have been eradicated within moments, THE BATTLE THAT STOPPED ROME depicts how so many were killed solely because of the incompetence of a commander who should have known better.

Too much fluff.............2007-03-09

I found Peter S. Wells' book on the destruction of the three Roman legions at Teutoburg Forest to be terribly limited in scrope and very short on description. Since Teutoburg Forest is a very specific military campaign, most people who would read this book will already have a good solid background on Rome and her history. Thus, we do not need 160 pages worth of background material which will not add anything to anyone's knowledge.

To make this really sad, I thought the author's description of the campaign and battle to be truly simplified. What make the author even dream that this entire battle was over within a hour?? It going to take whole lot more then 18,000 barbaric Germans to wipe out three Roman legions in one hour regardless of the situation. It may be that the author tried too hard to be different from the norm and this led to many foolish conjectures that borderline on fantasy.

It should also be stress that as catastrophic as this defeat may be, it only discouraged Roman expansion across into Germany. But it definitely did not stopped the Romans from moving in other territories. Just look at Trajan's rule or even earlier...Claudius' invasion and conquest of Britain. Glory of Rome have only began in 9 AD, it did not end at Teutoberg Forest. The author appears to be grossly overhyped this campaign. (In hindsight, it may have been a disaster for Germany who didn't get the benefits of Roman civilization.)

Considering that there are several other books written on this campaign, it would be easy to pass on this book which really doesn't explained much about the battle or the campaign. I would recommend Major Tony Clunn's In Quest of the Lost Legions which explained the details of this campaign and battle in far clearer and with more authority. The paperback copy of this book I was reading, looked exactly like the first edition copy of Clunn's book. Same black background with Roman mask.

I also find very interesting reading the past reviews of this book that people who wrote negatively about this book appears to be know more about Teutoberg Forest then the people who wrote positively.

Interesting but not too enlightening.......2007-02-24

The author seems to have written this as a very basic coverage of what was likely a much more complicated situation. I didn't know anything about this incident in history, but from his own descriptions, it had far reaching consequences. I was hoping for a little more meat but as an introduction, it was sufficient. This just makes me want to find out more about the Teutoberg battle.

I received great service!.......2007-01-08

Received in a timely manner, and the product was in great shape! Thank you!

Not Good at All.......2006-10-02

Looks lets be realistic. After 2000 years there is precious little that we really know about the Battle in the Teutonburg Forest. Wells does a good job but like a lot books on obscure figures, events, and times we know relatively little, the writer ends up spending a lot of time on speculation of what might or must of happenned or concentrating on events that are more or less tangental. And so wells does so in this book, which may be the best overall review in English about what we know of the battle.

Precisely because we are stuck with various hagiographies such as that of Tacitus and other, more obscure remnants, more snippets of information from other Roman or Greek historians (usually a few hundred years after the event), and even more obscure archeological inferences -- we need to infer and cover topics that are increasingly not related to the battle. And so this book does exactly that: Wells covers the acheological and written record, the main sources, and then launches off into short chapters on Augustus, Varus and Arminius. There is also coverage of such topics of the structure of the Roman Army (but a little too light in my opinion), battle order, weaponry, details on combat technique and how people eventually were slain and died.

There is far too much speculation here and unfortunately, unless one is consigned to writting a book of about 100 pages, this is the way it will be with topics such as this. There has been a lot of what I would call "inferential writing" these days about the classic antiquity era of warfare VD Hansen, being a good example. It is amazing what truths these people propound with the very thinnest of premises and even less hardcore written and physical evidence. Its as if people, at a despair with the lack of sources and evidence, have resorted to inventing their record and truths.

The book is light and breezy and should be read like that as well -- after you have put down your Kant or Hegel of the evening, when you eyes have closed on your Burkehart, then this one should keep you up a few more hours.... and in that sense it is well worth reading.

An Emperor for the Legion (Videssos Cycle)

Average customer rating:

politics through the filter of the a roman legion
Five Stars in Not Enough
Great story
Predictable, boring, typically formulaic Turtledove drivel.
The epic continues. . .

An Emperor for the Legion (Videssos Cycle)
Harry Turtledove
Manufacturer: Del Rey
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Mass Market Paperback

General | Fantasy | Science Fiction & Fantasy | Subjects | Books

Legion of Videssos (Videssos Cycle, Book 3)
Swords of the Legion (Videssos Cycle)
The Misplaced Legion
Krispos Rising
Krispos of Videssos (Tale of Krispos, No 2)

ASIN: 0345330684
Release Date: 1987-04-12

Book Description

Foul sorcery had slain the Emperor. Now the army of Videssos, betrayed by one man's craven folly, fled in panic from the savage victors. But there was no panic in the Legion, mysteriously displaced from Gaul and Rome into this strange world of magic.

Wearily, Tribune Marcus Scaurus led his men through the chaos and enemy hordes in search of winter quarters, to regroup and seek to join up with Thorisin Gavras, now rightful ruler of Videssos.

But in Videssos the city, capital of the beleaguered realm, Ortaias Sphrantzes, whose cowardice had caused their defeat, now sat upon the throne. There, behind great walls that had always made the city impregnable to storm or siege, he ruled with the support of evil sorcery. Overthrowing him seemed impossible.

Grimly, Marcus Scaurus began the long march through hostile country toward that seemingly hopeless attempt.

Customer Reviews:

politics through the filter of the a roman legion.......2004-12-03

"An Emperor for the Legion" is the second of four volumes in the Videssos Cycle. At the end of "The Misplaced Legion", the Emperor had been killed by the Sorcerer of Yezda and the Videssan army had been routed due to the failure of Ortaias Sphrantzes to hold his section of the line. The army has been split into several parts, each with no contact with the others. Ortaias has one part, the Thorisin Gavras has another. Gavras is viewed by many as the rightful heir to Videssos. The rest of the army is under the command of Marcus Scaurus, the misplaced Roman Legionary. The plot of the first book in the series took a Roman Legion and through an accident of magic transported the legion to another world. They hired on with the Empire of Videssos as a mercenary company and with the murder of the emperor, Marcus is seeking the one man he is willing to follow: Thorisin Gavras.

Much of "An Emperor for the Legion" is one long march. Marcus and his Romans, plus the rest of the army, is on the march through lands controlled by the Yezda and have to deal with random attacks. After finally meeting up with Thorisin, they return to the capital city of Videssos only to find it occupied by Ortaias, claiming to be the new Emperor. Marcus and Thorisin need to decide if they can accept the rule of Ortaias, or if attempting to assault the nearly impenetrable fortress city is worth the cost.

This book is the logical extension of the story after "The Misplaced Legion". We do not see much character development of the Romans (or anyone else), but by spending more time with the Romans we get a better sense of who the men are. Call it "character explanation". The initial intrigue of sticking a Roman legion in a completely alien world in which magic is fairly commonplace has worn off by this point, but Turtledove is able to tell an interesting story with these characters. After this novel, the focus seems to be on the politics of Videssos seen through the filter of the Roman Legion. It's good, and very detail orientated. "An Emperor for the Legion" is a slower moving tale, but the series is an interesting one.

-Joe Sherry

Five Stars in Not Enough.......2000-08-15

Harry Turtledove has said that his life was shaped and molded by reading "Lest Darkness Fall" by L. Sprague De Camp. To my mind this first series by the master of alternate history is a time travel book based loosely upon that previous classic. Elements of one of Caesar's legions are transported forward in time to the Byzantine Empire. Only it's not the Byzantine Empire, it's the Videssos Empire in another universe where magic works. Aside from that, it's the Byzantine Empire written by a Byzantine historian. Aside from just surviving, the hero must prevent his new homeland from being overrun by barbarians "Lest Darkness Fall". For this reason I consider this the best time travel series to a fictitious universe ever written, as well as the best series about a Roman Legion. It is a must read for anyone interested in the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, or time travel.

One of the many things which make this series interesting is that the heroes are from Caesar's Rome. Rome is young energetic vibrant and, most of all, expanding at this time. They are transported to the Byzantine/Videssos Empire while it is in a period of decline. (If it were the real Byzantine Empire, it would be the final decline, but we can still hope for a revival of the Videssos Empire.) The decadence brought by a thousand years of Empire is sharply contrasted with the vibrant patriotism of our heroes who remain unknowing that this is the destiny of their empire too.

This isn't just a military book where the legion moves from battle to battle. This is a much more realistic and complete world where the hero is thrust into the middle of court politics, and has to fight to overcome the shear inertia of the Empire's slide towards collapse. The hero spends more time facing corruption, political intrigue, distrustful monarchs, intolerant monks, and tax collectors than he does facing mounted cavalry units.

I don't want to repeat the excellent review about the warfare in this series written by Robert, 12 MAR 99, under "The Misplaced Legion" (Videssos Cycle, Book 1). I would like to add though, that this is not a series about a general. This is not a David Drake/S.M. Sterling series about Belisarius. As Robert points out, the hero of this series stands in the middle of the battles, and seldom knows more of what's going on than immediately to his left and right. The battles themselves are mostly standup fights where two sides hack at each other. This is really much more realistic though. Most battles, especially in the Roman era, were fought this way. Even though nowadays it seems like every book we read is about Belisarius, brilliant generals with innovative battlefield ideas come along only once in a thousand years or so. Most battles are fought without them.

"The Misplaced Legion" (Videssos Cycle, Book 1) is followed by "An Emperor for the Legion" (The Videssos Cycle Book, 2), "The Legion of Videssos" (Videssos Cycle, Book 3), and "Swords of the Legion" (Videssos Cycle, Book 4). There are two prequel series about Videssos. The first is the Tale of Krispos series, beginning with "Krispos Rising." This is actually a two book story, which is excellent, and a third follow on novel which is very good. The other prequel, The Time of Troubles series, begins with "The Stolen Throne". This series is entertaining, but not really as good as the first two series.

Although there are ten books about Videssos, there can never be enough. And there are only four books about the Misplaced Legion. There needs to be a sequel series not another prequel. Perhaps "Legion of Videssos: Next Generation" where Marcus's son, born and raised in Videssos, can become Emperor, with Dad and his Legion helping out of course. This could lead to a new golden age for Videssos, and maybe even . . .

Great story.......1999-07-28

I am truly enjoying this series. I am now working on Swords of the Legion and I have to say that this is a great series. "An Emperor for the Legion" is simply another outstanding addition to it. The characters are not super heroes, the Magic is not overpowering, and the story is humorous and interesting.

Predictable, boring, typically formulaic Turtledove drivel........1999-04-12

If you like predictable psuedo-historical formulaic drivel you'll love the continuation of the Videssos Cycle. This book, like so many of the author's, uses repetitive and unimaginative language and themes. Turtledove uses the same phrasing, the same situations, even the same quotations from one book to another. The simple stories go nowhere and the characters are one dimensional and unbelievable. These type of alternative historical novels have been done so much better by almost any author that has laid pen to paper.

The epic continues. . ........1997-07-31

The epic story started in "The Misplaced Legion" continues with this book. Absolutely none of the energy driving this story was lost

Average customer rating:

An Emperor for the Legion
Harry Turtledove
Manufacturer: Del Rey
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Mass Market Paperback
ASIN: B000GRDOV4

Average customer rating:

An Emperor for the Legion
Harry Turtledove
Manufacturer: Ballantine Books
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Mass Market Paperback
ASIN: B000MJ0G6M

Average customer rating:

The First Emperor's Terracotta Legion
Yu Tianwei
Manufacturer: Progress Books
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Hardcover

General | Photography | Arts & Photography | Subjects | Books

General | Ancient | History | Subjects | Books
ASIN: 7503200766

Average customer rating:

The numbering of the victories of the Emperor Gallienus and of the loyalty of his legions (Numismatic chronicle reprint series)
Andreas AlfoÌldi
Manufacturer: Attic Books
ProductGroup: Book
Binding: Unknown Binding
ASIN: 0915018284

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